Adding RV Batteries

Hey Doc, I just recently purchased a used Class A Newmar coach. Where do I find out what rating of battery needs to be used for replacement? The specific gravity on the existing batteries are low and after charging, is not coming up. The batteries are weak after only 8 hours of using a very light load. They are five years old. I have no clue as to what amp-hour I should be using. Rich W. (Virginia Beach, VA)

Rich, you can measure the battery cases of your existing batteries to determine the amp-hour rating; most battery suppliers will have a chart indicating the amperage rating based on the physical size of the case. But it’s always been my advice to carry as many batteries as the space and your wallet will allow. You can never have too much battery capacity. Many motorhomes use Group 27 (or larger) batteries for their auxiliary DC power. Some go with 6-volt batteries wired in series. Be sure to have your existing batteries tested properly before condemning them; though at five years, they probably have indeed expired their useful lives.

Put as many Group 27s in there as can fit. You’ll want the highest amperage storage capacity as possible. As an example, two Group 27, 12-volt batteries wired in parallel will equal about 210 amps of storage capacity. Two Trojan T-105, 6-volt batteries wired in series will yield about 225 amps of storage. If you can fit three or more Group 27 12-volt batteries, then go for that. When using 6-volt batteries they must be added in pairs. But do the math....four Group 27s in parallel will provide 420 amps or so, but four T-105s will provide 450 amps total, and with a slightly smaller footprint.

More is usually better! You may also want to consider an upgrade to AGM batteries if you plan on extended dry camping excursions. Lots of options to consider! 

##RVT818

Choosing a Tankless RV Water Heater

I am trying to compare tankless RV hot water heaters. The two I found are the Girard and Precision Temp. The Girard has less BTUs and states that to increase heat you need to decrease volume, which sucks for taking a shower. Is the Precision Temp unit the same? I am a full-timer and travel to and stay at winter locations. Phil W. (Rapid City, SD)

Phil, I’ve seen the Girard unit at the National RVIA Trade Show, but I’ve never installed one or had it tested. I haven't seen any reviews about it either. It’s relatively new on the market. The Precision Temp RV 500, on the other hand, has been around for a few years and I’ve personally installed and tested one. Though I didn't take a shower, (it was a customer's rig, after all!), it worked perfectly during testing after the installation. Click here to read my full review of the RV 500. 

Why RV Service Technician Certification is Important!

I am very frustrated! I just purchased a used coach and I have had no problems so far until this week. I left for about four days and when I came back I noticed a wet spot on the floor in the corner near the slideout and under the fridge. I often stay at a resort site and have asked several other owners about pressure regulators as I only had a trickle of water and they didn't use one so I took it off a week ago. I checked under all the sinks and saw no problems then went on my trip. I called a mobile RV repair person who came out this afternoon and didn't even let me tell him about my pressure theory, but announced that my slideout was leaking and that all slideouts have the potential to leak and when it rains the slideout should be retracted. That makes no sense to me at all. He told me to put silver tape over the rubber seams and left without charging me. I hooked my water back up and checked it about two hours later and it was wetter then before. I looked under the back left area of the rig where I am speaking of but the underbelly is enclosed. I pushed up on the belly and water started dripping. I don't know how to get in there to look at anything. It is not pouring but dripping. I still think there is some small hole in line where the fresh water enters the coach behind the white compartment where you hook up the city water hose. Any ideas? Linda M. (Lacey, WA)

Linda, I hear your frustration and it frustrates me greatly that some incompetent service technicians are simply not good troubleshooters! The first step, as a troubleshooter, is to listen to the customer for crying out loud! Now maybe the slideout seals were indeed leaking (that is a problem with some designs), but taping over the seal is most certainly NOT a viable repair tactic. And he wanted YOU to do it! Incredible! 

It’s also apparent that you still have a leak in the fresh water system; maybe not a hole, but quite simply a leak at a connection caused by the wracking and twisting of the coach as it travels down the road. As for pressure regulation, I always recommend a regulator if the incoming city pressure exceeds around 65 PSI. Perhaps the maintenance person at the resort will actually measure the city pressure at your site to determine if the regulator is truly necessary. But it certainly would not hurt to always use an in-line regulator.

Still, it is apparent a seeping leak still exists and must be located and repaired before structural damage occurs. Mold and mildew are also a concern if left unattended. There should definitely be no water retention in between the floor and sub-floor, ever. It’s paramount you have a certified RV service technician inspect, diagnose and repair the leak(s) as soon as possible. Leak repairs should not be that difficult to diagnose with the proper testing equipment. It can be determined in a matter of fifteen minutes IF a leak exists. The repair however, may be more difficult to effectuate, but a quick diagnosis could lead to a quicker repair. Try to locate a service facility in your area that employs Certified or Master Certified service technicians. The Industry Certification awarded by RVIA and RVDA means that technician has been tested and is qualified to perform professional RV troubleshooting and subsequent repairs. Look for the certification patch (see photo), on any RV technician working on your RV or ask to see their certification prior to authorizing repair work.

##RVT892

RV Out of Warranty

Our Crossroads Seville has four slideouts and it's only about four years old and already two of the four slides have malfunctioned and not opened. I think this is a bit too soon for this type of repair expense. Should we see if the manufacturer will back the repairs or is there a maintenance procedure that we could be doing to keep them operating easier? Sandi T. (Fostoria, OH)

Sandi, it’s doubtful the dealer or the manufacturer will be of much help, financially, on a coach approaching four years old (most warranties term out at 12 months). But it certainly cannot hurt to ask! A sincere letter or email to the manufacturer may be the best approach. It all depends on which components actually malfunctioned. There are some RV-owner maintenance procedures mandated by most manufacturers, but typically they involve cleaning, lubricating and taking care not to overload the slide room mechanisms. 

Also, check to be sure you do not have an applicable extended warranty or service agreement, either from the dealer or a 3rd party vendor. Additionally, look online for any recall notices that may apply to your unit or the maker of the slide mechanism. But let me know what actually failed with those two rooms.  

Product Spotlight: OP Products - Pure Power Blue

The trials and tribulations of RV waste management and odor control have long been a topic of interest here on the RV Doctor Website. And typically I try to leave you with a workable solution, rather than just highlight the problem and walk away. 

For many years I've extolled the benefits of RM Tank Care, one of the very first enzyme-based, bacteria-infused waste digesters to enter the RV marketplace. And one that truly worked! But alas, some good things are bound to come to an end. And so it is with RM Tank Care. The parent company recently removed RV Tank Care from the market in order to focus on their other products. So the search was on for a replacement product to help RVers everywhere deal with odor control and the breakup of solid, black holding tank waste.

As readers of the RV Doctor Column and website are aware, there are now many such products out there regarding odor control and confusion abounds about how effective they may or may not be. So recently, the good folks at Drainmaster, introduced me to another product, Pure Power Blue, as produced by OP Products. My initial research encouraged me to dig a little deeper. 

As part of my due diligence, I typically rely on a close cadre of individuals including RV educators, authors, Master Certified RV service technicians, engineers and others to help direct my personal recommendations. For this product evaluation I called on one of my FOGs (Friends of Gary), author and RV service technician, Chris Dougherty to help with some experimentation.

Since the “Go Green” movement permeated the RV Industry, it's been proven that the use of certain chemicals, including formaldehyde, a common preservative found in RV toilet chemicals, is hazardous to the environment, humans and pets. Just about every company that manufactures these additives now produces a green alternative. OP Products may be the exception since they've only produced "green" additives, avoiding any use of chemicals, from day one. Perfecting upon their development of Pure Power Green, they are now offering what they consider to be the most powerful, easiest to use and most economical RV holding tank additive yet developed, Pure Power Blue, Waste Digester and Odor Eliminator. Pure Power Blue is four times as concentrated as any near competition.

Featuring their proprietary “BioBlast Plus” technology, this new product uses bacteria and enzymes to break down waste naturally and safely. The company states that their biodegradable product will “control odor immediately, even in high heat conditions over 120°F.” In addition, the bacteria and enzymes in their product enhance the sewage and septic systems to which they’re introduced.

Pure Power Blue is available as a liquid in sizes ranging from 4 to 128 ounces. It is also available in convenient, dissolving, single-use pouches, in 6 or 12-pouch packages. The company states that a mere 2 ounces or 1 bio-pouch will treat a 40-gallon tank (an additional dose is recommended for temperatures above 105°F). 

When it comes to a bacteria-based holding tank treatment solution, a normal question might be: is it safe? According to OP Products, “The bacteria used in [their] products are non-pathogenic, friendly Bacillus bacteria. These types of bacteria are cultivated from natural sources, therefore they are perfectly safe to use in any cleaning or maintenance situation.” 

The Pure Power Blue liquid is a lighter color than some of the traditional products and has a pleasant smell when opened. Simply add 2 ounces of Pure Power Blue to a gallon of water and that’s it. The same for the bio-pouch; one gallon or just enough water to cover the bottom of the tank.

One claim the company makes is that it will break down any 2-ply household toilet tissue, meaning there's no need to use RV-specific, quick-dissolve paper, which of course, is more expensive than store brands. So Chris set out to test that claim. Here's his report: 

The Experiment: I used two clean glass jars, one with plain tap water and the other with a tap water/Pure Power Blue mixture (about ½ ounce of additive in the jar of water). I then added four sheets of store brand, (generic), 2-ply toilet tissue to each jar.  

The Results: In a one hour test, the toilet paper in the plain tap water remained as it was when I inserted it. When stirred, it held together perfectly, without deforming or separating at all. However, in the Pure Power Blue solution, the paper had dissolved almost completely, and upon stirring, was nicely broken down and completely shredded. Clearly, complete dissolving would have occurred within a short time, perhaps another hour or two, but even at this point in time, flushing of holding tanks would have been easy and complete.

In a practical use test over three days in July, I found quite remarkable results. I added a single bio-pouch to the black water tank with a few gallons of water. The system was used by two people during that time and outside temperatures were around 80°F. Upon dumping the tanks, the black tank, which is always dumped and rinsed first, did so with little or no evidence of solids. Nor was there any odor that would normally accompany this process; it was absolutely absent. Upon dumping the grey water from the kitchen, however, where no additive was used, a perceptible odor was noticed. In my many years of RVing experience, this was the first time this phenomenon occurred. It will be interesting to see if this scenario holds up with longer use and more people are using the RV.

There are a couple of things to ponder about most typical bio-agents used for RV odor control. First, if you’ve recently used a formaldehyde-based product, you'll typically need to flush the tanks numerous times to help eliminate the residual formaldehyde which may kill the bacteria. Also, doubled dosages are required during the first few uses until all the old chemical is completely removed. Second, there are some products, like toilet cleansers, sanitizers, sanitizing hand soap, etc., that should not be used in conjunction with typical tank additives. Basically, anything that kills bacteria will render most products inert. Not so with Pure Power Blue. Because of its highly concentrated formula, such cleaning agents will not destroy the live bacteria. Remember, it's four times as potent as any other product on the market!

Test Conclusion: Pure Power Blue Waste Digester and Odor Eliminator is a great addition to the RVing lifestyle, making holding tank duties easier and more pleasant, plus it's good for the environment and RV park septic systems as well. A win-win for everyone. And remember, RVing is more than a hobby, it is a lifestyle! 

UPDATE! The RV Doc replicated the above-mentioned test sequence on video. Click here to watch the video.

RV Storage - Comfy Indeed!

We purchased a Komfort travel trailer six months ago. I am fortunate that I can store it inside an insulated, cooled and heated building when not on the road. When should I consider doing anything to the roof? Ray B., (Union, WA)

You are indeed fortunate Ray! The only thing you really need to do is perform a detailed inspection a couple times a year and simply keep it clean. The fact that it is out of the weather when not in use is a huge advantage! Just keep an eye on all the seams, seals and all attaching points for the various components mounted up there. If you choose a cleaning or preserving product, be sure it is compatible with that type of roofing surface.

Broken Weld on Travel Trailer Wheel

A friend of mine had a travel trailer wheel split at the weld while traveling in Canada. When he got back in the States, he spoke with a man who said that the chrome wheels that come with the load range G tires cannot handle the sideway pressure exerted by the tires. He called me and told me about this since I have load range G tires on our Jayco coach with what appears to be aluminum wheels. Is there any validity to the claim about the weld? Phil E., (Sioux Falls, SD)

Phil, I posed your question to Walter Cannon, Executive Director of the RV Safety and Education Foundation, one of the foremost experts on tires and RV safety. Here's what he had to say:  

"Having a weld brake although not common, does happen. Trailers are simply hard on tires and wheels. Whenever there are axles close together the lateral forces applied to the tires and wheels when turning are tremendous. This is particularly true when turning at low speeds like in campgrounds and in-town driving. Inflating trailer tires to the sidewall pressure will help them run cooler with less heat buildup as well as minimize the lateral forces applied in tight turn situations. These forces take their toll on the wheels and tires and failure will normally occur when the tire and wheel are at their highest temperature, i.e. running at highway speeds. Tires and wheels are matched to work together, in most cases this is based on air pressure ratings, if tires upgraded from an 80psi (load range E) to the 120psi (load range G) without upgrading wheels it could cause a problem. There is little one can do about the sideways forces other than to try to make as wide and smooth low speed turns as possible and avoid sharp tight turns. Aluminum wheels are normally milled from a solid block and do not experience the same type of problems as welded steel wheels."

Hope this helps!

Whistling Motorhome and Stopped Up Waste Drains - A Two-fer!

Thanks for a great seminar! Time ran out and I didn't get to ask you two questions. Both are among the more difficult that I've ever had to deal with and I spent eight weeks at and graduated from the Camping World University, so I'm prepared to try most anything. We have a loud whistling noise when traveling over 55 mph; particularly, with a head wind. Of course, the obvious solution (to paraphrase the Henny Youngman joke), "don't drive over 55 mph!" A technician moved the mirrors out saying that it would fix the problem; wrong. Upon returning home I filled in all of the possible openings in the firewall with foam. Do you have any other suggestions? 

Also, equally challenging; I have an occasional blockage of the black water tank at the exit of the drain pipe into the tank. The solution to clearing the blockage is to stick a nozzled hose down there; a messy unpleasant task. All previous coaches have had the toilet positioned directly over the tank. Our floor plan required a double 45-degree angle into the tank. Consequently, solids enter the tank at a slower speed, and the tank depth is less at the entry point than at the rest of the tank. I believe the manufacturer recognized this design shortcoming in our 2008 floor plan by installing a macerating toilet in the comparable 2009 model. I've discontinued using the Sani-Con all together because by emptying fluids first, it merely exacerbates the problem. I had an extension added to the back flush on the tank so that it is now at the position on the tank where the solids exit as opposed to the far left of the tank. Upon returning home, I'll remove the flush and drill a hole in the end. The "nozzles" spray in multiple directions and it should help if I can get a more concentrated spray directly on the solids that accumulate at the entrance to the tank. Any additional suggestions that you may have will be greatly appreciated. Joe G. (no city/state)

Joe, the whistling problem can be a real nuisance and an even more difficult disturbance to troubleshoot. The dynamics of noises produced by moving air is an interesting study. Almost any thing or combination of things can contribute to the noise. The obvious (seemingly) culprits include air horns, TV and radio antennas, curved moldings on sidewalls, design characteristics of the front cap, window placement, etc. This is a tough one to diagnose, especially via long distance! A detailed inspection of everything on the roof and at the front of the coach is in order. Look for loose moldings, gaps in the sidewall, etc. I’ve even seen wind deflectors installed in front of air horns and antennas, but I have no proof that it truly helped. There is a product call Air-Tabs that I have not personally tested or evaluated, but it may be worth a call to the company to see if they have any recommendations regarding air movement and noise at the front of the motorhome. That’s a tough one! You could always just crank up the bluegrass music to 10 and you won't even hear the whistling noise!

As to your second question, it is unfortunate that the toilet drains through two, 45-degree elbows before entering the tank. It is code compliant, by the way, but when coupled with that offset shelf built into the design of the holding tank, it simple worsens the situation. To gain more velocity, always evacuate when the holding tank is nearly full, even if you have to add fresh water to top it off. Refilling the holding tank with fresh water and dumping again will indeed help. In fact, it is recommended to refill and dump all holding tanks in this manner when practical. (Here are my recommended dumping procedures). 

And be sure to use an enzyme-based, live bacteria-type holding tank additive to help reduce the mass of the solid waste during the time it's in the holding tank. Using copious amounts of water during each flush of the toilet may help, but it appears you are at the mercy of the floorplan. Unless you opt to replace the toilet with a macerator toilet. 

Very Loud RV Water Pump

We have a new 27-foot travel trailer RV. The first time we used it the water pump was very loud. What can we do to quiet it down? Kim H. (Cheyenne, WY)

Kim, the first thing you can do is check to see how the pump is actually anchored to the RV. Is it securely mounted on a non-vibrating surface? Most are installed flat on the floor or the bottom of a wet bay. Also, be sure the rubber isolators are in good shape. Yours probably are since you state it’s a brand new coach. Next make sure none of the fresh water tubing is hitting against any surface, floor, wall, partition, etc. You may need a flashlight to view the tubing as it leaves the output port of the pump. Some manufacturers may be lacking in their securing of the tubing as it is routed throughout the coach.

If the original installation appears solid, there are two aftermarket products that may help. One is a “Silencing Kit” produced by SHURflo. It is applicable to any water pump, by the way. Any RV parts department can order this kit for you; part #94-591-01. I’m assuming your fresh water piping system consists of PEX tubing. For an optimum installation, it’s best to have a double loop of flexible water hose connected directly to the pump before it is connected to the semi-rigid PEX tubing (unlike the photo above). Not all manufacturers do this, unfortunately. But adding the SHURflo “Silencing Kit” performs the same function.

If that doesn’t work, you may require a SHURflo in-line accumulator. It simply installs in the cold water system, downstream of the pump. The accumulator is charged with a cushion of air and acts like a shock absorber while the pump is operating. All water pumps create a vibration when operating, so controlling the amplified effects of that can be minimized with either product.

rvt737; ##RVT817
 

Safely Jacking Up a Travel Trailer

I have a Keystone Zeppelin, 24-foot travel trailer with tandem axles. I would like to know the best way to get all four wheels off the ground at the same time to service wheels, besides rolling onto blocks to get one axle at a time. The axle owner's manual says not to jack on the axles. Where is the best place to jack and block for wheel service? David L. (Cumming, GA)

David, in my shop, if I couldn’t get the entire RV onto a hoist, I would only jack one side of the trailer at a time. Perform the service at each axle on that one side, then move to the other side. I would jack only on the main frame rail and allow the suspension to hang until both tires were clear of the shop floor. I would then lower that side onto appropriate, (read: weight capable), safety jack stands. Then simply repeat the process on the other side. For any RV being raised up with a floor jack, it’s much safer to always have at least two tires (or one side), safely on the ground at all times. Remember, safety first, the time element, second! 

##RVT816